The municipal elections due in 2019 are "a republican milestone", according to Catalan president in exile Carles Puigdemont. And, for this reason, Puigdemont considers that the pro-independence political parties should form joint candidatures in Barcelona and the other major cities of Catalonia. Puigdemont explains in this, the continuation of his videoconference interview with El Nacional that the JxCat (Together for Catalonia) list which he successfully led in the Catalan election last December will continue attempting to invest him as president, once the Catalan parliament passes a planned reform of the investiture regulations.
A reform of the parliamentary regulations is being initiated in order to enable a remote investiture. Does this mean that they foresee an attempt to invest Puigdemont as president once again?
This has been the commitment since the first day. We are commited to attempting it. Nothing has changed in that, on the contrary.
That is, that at the end of year when the reform of Parliament's regulations is finished, you will try again...
I don't know the calendars, but I suppose that Parliament will continue its process and we will attempt to endow ourselves with a tool that will also modernize government for the 21st century, with technologies and mobility.
How is the coordination with the Torra government working?
Very well - in fact, very, very well.
Is there daily contact? How do you organize yourselves?
Practically daily. There is no barrier, apart from the physical one, there is no other barrier. We exchange documents, we hold videoconferences, our teams get in touch for everyday, for more general matters. It is natural that coordination exists, among other reasons because there are still transitional questions, which president Torra has to know about and monitor. It forms part of the responsibility of the post.
There was a lot of debate about whether president Torra had to use your office or not, does that seem significant to you?
It is an anecdote which I hadn't even noticed. I have seen, and was very content with the fact, that he used [1930 Catalan] president Companys's desk, that seems symbolically very important to me. And, in any case, president Torra is in a building that was built to be the headquarters of an institution that was born in 1359. That musn't be forgotten. Whoever occupies that office, the seat of government of the country, the institution of the presidency of the Generalitat resides in a building which was constructed for that very purpose, which has an antiquity that honours the tradition of our institutions and reminds us that this is not an institution that was born with the Spanish constitution, but rather was born many centuries ago and that the attitude of those individuals who have occupied the presidency of the Generalitat, the presidency of Catalonia, whether at home or in exile, has allowed its historical continuity.
How long must this legislature last?
The legislatures are for four years, but in any case, as in all parliamentary democracies, they have to last the length of time that the parliamentary majority decides, not what some gentleman or a vice president in an office in Madrid decides. If the government can maintain this majority to continue governing, which is what we want, it can continue until the end. There are circumstances that today are not foreseen, but that could happen, because the agenda keeps on changing and important changes are possible, that might make it advisable to the president to call elections, then probably he would look into the possibility of doing so, but that is not on the table. The legislatures last for four years and their life has to be their natural life, it cannot be the act of euthanasia that the Rajoy government performed on the former legislature in a totally abusive and illegitimate way.
We have initial work to do before get to cruising speed, which is to repair all the damage done by article 155
Your government was criticised for having a calendar that was too inflexible, with milestones and dates, and on the other hand, it's being said that the Torra government is exactly the opposite, that it is not clear what it aims to do and how long it will take. Do you believe that it should have a more specific road map?
It needs the road map which the government believes appropriate. Of the many lessons that we have learned, this is one. That the government should do what it believes it has to do. And let's free ourselves from this debate, which is probably more mediatic than political. There is a period that we have passed through, and we did the homework that we committed ourselves to do. The work programme from that period was carried out and we did what we agreed that we would do, but that can't be repeated because we have already done it, and now we have initial work before getting up to cruising speed, which is to repair all the damage done by Article 155. We are not starting from zero, we start from less than that in quite a lot of areas, and we have to get things up to date. I see the determination of the government to move quickly with this emergency plan to make up for the effects of 155, this is the priority that we have as a country, [the Spanish authorities] wanted to knock down many things that were difficult for us to build, simply to carry out reprisals against an entire people, and the duty of the government of Catalonia is to repair all that as soon as possible, which is what it is doing.
And, when the repair of 155 is finished and what you call cruising speed is reached, is there a clear objective?
I am not at all worried or anxious to know what this government will do, it has said what it will do. And what I want is that there are no obstacles in its way, especially external obstacles, and that it has a parliamentary majority to be able to go ahead with them. But it is evident that this is a process that goes well beyond the autonomic institutions, the institutions of Catalonia within the Spanish state. We have a highly mobilized civil society, which is ready to keep working for the Catalan Republic, and we have a space that also has its legitimacy outside the country, the Free Space, which, moreover, has people supporting it in different countries. All the elements are complementary, each one in its own work area. It is up to the government to govern well and effectively; it is up to the Council for the Republic to continue working for republican aims and to refine and invigorate as much as possible the debate on Catalonia's constituent process; and it is up to civil society, this state of mobilization, solidarity, saying "we are here, you can count on us", that is necessary for us and can take us a long away.
The PDeCAT (Catalan European Democratic Party) has decided to stand under the JxCat label in the 2019 municipal elections...
I don't think that's correct. That hasn't been said. The PDeCAT has said that JxCat, a brand that belongs to PDeCAT, would be a good choice for the municipal elections. And therefore, the PDeCAT will go along with that, just as it went along from the very start in JxCat. Therefore, the transversal, diverse, plural, republican spirit of JxCat in Parliament - that is what JxCat wants to transfer at municipal level. This is what PDeCAT has said. And I think that they even wanted to clarify that it is not simply a change of name, of label. It is a proposal to approach the municipal elections with the same commitment and spirit that was adopted at national level.
Do you believe that the independence movement should stand in joint lists in the municipal elections?
In Barcelona, definitely, and in the other major cities, as well. It is another republican milestone, a key one. I understand that in many places, at local level, there are many dynamics that go beyond the relationships between parties and are more to do with people, but in Barcelona, in the major cities, those with more than 100,000 inhabitants, let's say, it would be great news for many people to see the unity of the independence movement with its different accents.
Very soon the new association Junts per la República - Together for the Republic - will have its presentation, what is the objective of this movement?
I am part of the PDeCAT, and therefore it is my role to contribute to improving the PDeCAT. Together for the Republic is in fact the expression of the transversality that we want for JxCat. There are people who perhaps will never join a political party or who perhaps would like to do things differently, who believe their best contribution to a space that is so diverse but at the same time so hegemonic in the independence movement is through such a group. I salute them, I believe that it is a great initiative, the same name says many things, we are all together for the republic. Together with PDeCAT, with other political spaces that have joined us or people who come from different political traditions, along with individual people, all this strength combined has a capacity to mobilize and transform the country which is absolutely colossal. This is what it's about, that among all of us we can articulate this space, which people can recognize themseves in.
Are you optimistic about the decision of the Schleswig-Holstein court in relation to the Spanish government's European arrest warrant against you?
I never want to give my expectations on judicial decisions from anywhere. We make our defence, convinced that we are right and that there are no elements to support the case, not only in Germany but also in Spain. From this position we have not moved. They are decisions, in Germany especially, that depend on justice. Here, happily, they do not depend on politics because there is a clear and praiseworthy separation of powers.
And if in the end it is confirmed that the court rejects the extradition, you will go back to Brussels again...
The plan would be for all of us to go back to Waterloo and set in motion the free space what we have been speaking about these months. Therefore, leaving Germany and going back to Belgium.
And set in motion the Council for the Republic...
Exactly.
You have left Berlin, and you are installed in Hamburg...
It is more practical.
Your lawyer also explained that you were too exposed in Berlin...
I haven't had a single incident. On the contrary, Berlin society is extraordinary. As a matter of fact, I often go there. It is a place that I have felt very much at ease, one hundred per cent of the interaction with the people there has been superpositive. There was only one incident with a small group of Spanish tourists, that offered an insult. But, on the other hand, this contrasts with other groups of Spanish tourists who were extraordinarily respectful.
Have you encountered other groups of Spanish tourists?
Yes.
Have they reacted well?
The majority, except for this one group in particular, they took photographs of me, they have expressed their respect..., all very correct.
Rajoy was a very poor prime minister. History will be very hard on him
What do you think when you see that Rajoy has returned to his job as a property registrar in Santa Pola, and there is an internal battle for the Popular Party leadership going on?
I have not paid much attention to it, sincerely. I don't have any personal grudges against anybody. He has left politics. I believe that he was a very poor prime minister. History will be very hard on him. But at a personal level I do not have any type of enmity with anybody or any type of bad feeling. One of the things that we have achieved in these last few years is that our mental framework has evolved and is less and less dependent on what others do. Let's concentrate on what we want for our home, reaching agreement with everybody, so that everyone can do what they want. The degree to which the PP's reality affects me is, let's say, zero.