Together for Catalonia (Junts) goes into the Spanish general election on July 23rd with a new candidate at the head of the list. Míriam Nogueras i Camero (Dosrius, 1980) is top of the party's Barcelona list for the Congress of Deputies, while the lists for Girona, Lleida and Tarragona are led by Marta Madrenas, Isidre Gavín and Josep Maria Cruset, respectively. Nogueras has been an MP in the Spanish lower house since 2016 and for the last two years has already been serving as leader of Junts in Congress following Laura Borràs's run for the presidency of the Generalitat. In the primaries, there was in the end no other candidate than her, since ex-minister Jaume Giró decided not to stand because Carles Puigdemont and Jordi Turull asked him to reconsider. In mid June, Nogueras granted this interview to ElNacional.cat, her first as a Madrid candidate for Junts, emphasizing that if her party "holds the key" after the 23rd July vote, "nothing will be the same as before".
What is your assessment of the legislature?
The balance is not good. It's not, since now our language, culture, social policies, welfare state and ability to be a full European state are all at risk. These things have been at risk for many years and this is one of the reasons why many citizens of Catalonia and many workers in Catalonia went to the polls on October 1st 2017 and voted 'yes' to independence. The record of this legislature is bad. Junts has presented more than 13,000 initiatives to the Spanish Congress and the Senate. Of these, many have obviously been passed, but the [self-labelled] "most progressive government in history", that of the PSOE and Podemos, has not executed them all. Despite passng them, it has not paid up.
What examples are there?
I'll give two examples: an amendment of 1.6 billion euros of Covid funds was passed. It was very important to provide the Catalan government with extraordinary funds to deal with an extraordinary situation. That was approved and is included in the Spanish state's budget for 2021 and has never been paid to Catalonia. The budget is the most important bill passed in any country and the first thing that must be asked of a government is to execute these accounts that are passed every year. Another proposal that was approved was the reduction of VAT on funeral services from 21% to 10%. This was done in accordance with a European directive, which gives a list of services for which the rates can be reduced. During this legislature, the reduction has not been implemented. What has not been executed also says a lot about Spanish governments, because it is not just this government, but all those that have preceded it. What we have also done is an assessment of what the situation of Catalonia is today and what it was four years ago, and it is very negative. The situation is serious: we have lost more than we have gained during this legislature. Almost nothing has happened that has not happened in the previous legislatures and over the last forty years. It is not normal that in no case in the last 40 years has the spending passed in a Spanish budget been paid to Catalonia. We've normalized that, but it's not normal. The balance is therefore negative, but it's not because I say so, it's because the data says so. And if there is one thing we want to make very clear during this legislature, it's that for everything we say, there is a fact next to it.
This is your first election as head of the Junts list in Congress. How do you face the challenge?
I think we all know why Junts per Catalunya was born. Junts is born to be that party that captures what our country is, characterized by this transversality. That is why we present a coalition very similar to that of [2015-17 pro-independence coalition] Junts pel Sí, in which we would like everyone to feel that they are, at least, recognized. We are talking about the future of our country. We are talking about the future of our children. It is a privilege to be part of this struggle that a people have decided to undertake in order to live better, so that people are a little happier. I take it on with enthusiasm. We have had enough, and I think that for too long the citizens and workers of Catalonia have been terribly disdained. The votes of Catalans have a value, they are not to be given away, and our objective is to apply that: that Catalan votes are used for what the citizens of this country want.
It is not normal that in no case in the last 40 years has the spending passed in a Spanish budget been paid to Catalonia. We've normalized that, but it's not normal.
You have been ratified by the members as a candidate. Before that, however, the move by Jaume Giró to step aside was announced. What reading do you make of it?
I am proud to be part of such an uncomplicated party. Maximum respect for the minister Giró and all the people who are part of this party who are making it possible for this to happen. I think that today few parties can say that they have this transversality, this uncomplexed approach and this openness that Junts has.
On Monday, you held a press conference to sum up the legislature and you already outlined some goals for the next one. One of your statements was that, if you have the key, "nothing will be the same and everything will be different". What does this mean?
The citizens and workers of Catalonia said that they'd had enough a long time ago. They decided that things could not continue as they are now and they voted. There was a referendum. It was voted that Catalonia would become an independent state of Europe, that is to say, the citizens made use of their legitimate right to decide the political future of our country. Therefore, starting from that basis, in the Spanish state they probably do not want to see that, and there are many people here who are trying to ensure that it is all forgotten, but many of us are disconnected from the state. I don't feel Spanish and there's nothing wrong with that, nor do I feel French. I feel Catalan, and the day they put out ballot boxes to ask me what I wanted to happen to my country, I decided that I wanted it to be an independent state. Therefore, the frame of mind we are in is a Catalan frame of mind. We do not allow ourselves to be swallowed up by a Spanish frame of mind that obviously only wants to neutralize independence and those people and parties who want our country to be an independent country, that our citizens have many more opportunities than they have have while forming part of the Spanish state. We don't have a state, but we do have a state mentality. And when we say that everything will change, it is because history changes greatly if the negotiator that the Spanish state has in front of it is a negotiator with a state mentality or has a Spanish frame of mind, with a sense that they belong to a Spanish autonomous community. Like that, they certainly don't have the uncomplexed attitude that we have in this regard.
So far, do you think this has not been done?
So far, the parties have not done it. We won't criticize this now though. I find it quite legitimate that there are some who thought that they could do a little better than what [previous Catalan nationalist representatives in Madrid] Duran, Campuzano or even Tardà already did, but we are in a different scenario. We are very clear that what we represent also represents many people in Catalonia and things must change. They can't go on like this. We are hearing a lot these days that there is a risk of regression in our culture, our language, the social policies we defend, which are not the same as those which the Spanish parties defend. But our way of doing things, our policies, are different and that becomes clear when the Constitutional Court overturns those policies that differentiate us, here, from the policies of the state. We don't have a state, but we do have a state mentality.
We do not allow ourselves to be swallowed up by a Spanish and 'autonomous community' frame of mind that only wants to neutralize independence. We don't have a state, but we do have a state mentality
In a hypothetical negotiation table, what would be the main duty or outstanding debt that the state has with Catalonia that they would put on the table?
We won't go to Madrid with a list. Now we're in another phase, we can't prolong this phase that we've been in for too long, as has been tried so far. People have kept trying to stretch the rubber band but it can't be done any longer. That is, taking a state mentality when you go before a state that has done nothing but work to neutralize us. When there is an election at Spanish state level, one of the first things the incoming government does is hold a meeting of the Delegate Committee on Intelligence Issues, with the presence of the main state ministers and it is decided what road map the government will give to its intelligence services. We are all very clear, because it has also been published, that the Spanish government under PP prime minister Rajoy had as its main objective, after jihadist terrorism, to neutralize the independence movement. When the government of Pedro Sánchez came in, this directive was maintained. We are fully aware that sitting opposite us we do not have friends who want to negotiate with us but people who have no interest our fulfilling our national aspirations in a positive way. Nothing that the Catalan parties agreed with the Spanish government [that the latter] would support has been fulfilled. But it's not just this legislature. Of everything that Rajoy promised, only 6.2% was fulfilled. Of what Zapatero promised, 14%. And the numbers of the government of Sánchez and Podemos/Sumar are the same.
Despite this different framework, and given these breaches by different governments, how can voters allow themselves to think that this might now change?
The thing is, it just won't change. We don't want people to think that this might change because it won't. We are not presenting ourselves to change the Kingdom of Spain. That will be decided by Spanish citizens. We present ourselves because the Spanish state is a place where political decisions are made that affect us, but we are a pro-independence party. We are one of those who have said that it is over and that we cannot let ourselves be leg-pulled any more at any time or in any field. We must all be very clear that Spain always chooses Spain. It will never choose Catalonia.
If after July 23rd, the votes of Junts are decisive for either an investiture of Feijóo or of Sánchez, what approach will you have?
We are not going to Madrid to invest any Spanish prime minister. That is not our goal. Anyone who says that after 23rd July, no matter what happens we will be begin to go backwards, is deceiving us. People are very clear about what is up. So it's not about fighting against a regression or going with a list of demands, it's about standing up and saying enough. We are going there to defend Catalonia.
So you won't enter, then, in negotiation for an investiture?
The things is that our goal is not to negotiate anything.
And the fight for every public power and every euro that Catalonia is entitled to?
We have always done this. Those 13,000 initiatives were to scrape every penny, every right and every public power that the state takes from us every Tuesday in every cabinet meeting. This has been our job. I don't think that people want us politicians to scrape for crumbs, this is about something much bigger. This is why Junts exists and why we say that nothing will be the same if we hold the key.
For you, are the PSOE and the PP comparable?
They are both Spanish parties and I know that when it comes to choosing, they will always choose Spain. And what interests me is Catalonia, not giving power to Spanish prime ministers.
Do you fear that a government formed by the PP and Vox could lead to further setbacks for Catalonia?
Vox undertook the private prosecution of the Catalan independence leaders' trial, a trial in which our government, the legitimate government of Catalonia, chosen by the citizens of the country, was sitting in the dock. For this reason, I reiterate very strongly that the votes of the Catalans must count, they must be not given away or put on trial, which is what the Spanish state has done these last few years. When the judgment of that trial came out, the first to applaud it were the PSOE and the People's Party. When the events of 2017 happened, October 1st and 3rd and everything that happened afterwards, the first to make the thesis that what the citizens of Catalonia and the Catalan institutions did was a coup d'état were the extreme right. And this thesis allowed them to justify that citizens who wanted independence deserve to be or can be justifiably imprisoned, exiled, they can beat us, they don't need to pay us the budgeted amounts they owe us, they can accuse us of being terrorists. And this thesis created by the far right, the first to buy it were the PSOE and the PP. Therefore, those parties can't cry wolf about the far right, because we have always fought against all this and the reason why many people want independence in our country is because this does not represent us and we have always fought against it.
And the 'coup' thesis against the independence movement created by the far right, the first to buy it were the PSOE and the PP. So those parties can't cry wolf about the far right
After May 28th, president Pere Aragonès appealed for a common pro-independence front, an option that has been diluted. Could there still be room for a joint programmatic agreement for this election?
Junts is the one who put the common front on the table. We were very happy that president Aragonès joined us. It lasted as long as it lasted. We are very clear about what we want. We have formed a country coalition (with the Democrates party and the Moviment d'Esquerres) because we do believe that there must be a common front to be able to achieve Catalonia's independence. Therefore, whatever the other parties do, with all due respect, we do not share, but we will not tell ERC or the CUP what to do.
We are talking about a scenario where we talk as nation to nation, not as party to party or exchanging trading cards
Finally: if you are not going to negotiate in Madrid, what should you go there to do?
We will do what we have done so far. We have registered 13,000 initiatives. We went to scrape and do our best so that Catalonia did not lose so much. But we are talking about moving to a stage where we talk as nation to nation, not as party to party, list to list or exchanging trading cards. We are talking about a high level. We are talking about an absolutely different scenario to what has existed so far. The votes of Catalans must be heard and must be valued here, in Europe and in the world.